F.A.Z. Gesundheit – der Podcast

F.A.Z. Gesundheit - der Podcast

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Streit um die Homöopathie

| 360 Lesermeinungen

Die Deutschen sind Fans der kleinen Kügelchen und kaufen kräftig homöopathische Mittel, obwohl wissenschaftliche Beweise für deren Wirkung immer noch fehlen. Im Gespräch mit der Journalistin Denise Peikert, die ausführlich zu diesem Thema recherchiert hat, versucht Lucia Schmidt Klarheit zu schaffen, was nun dran ist an dieser Heilmethode.

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360 Lesermeinungen

  1. Wenn Homöopathie funktionieren würde...
    Die Wissenschaft..pfff.. Nach den eigenen Regeln der Homöopathie wären wir alle bekifft, wenn sich in Buenos Aires jemand einen Joint reinzöge.

    Der Welthunger wäre besiegt, weil ich eine Currywurst beim Curry 36 äße.

    Und wir wären alle Hitler (wobei natürlich auch „genügend“ Churchill, Stalin und Ghandi in der Luft wären…)

    Alles psychotischer Blödsinn.
    Ich geh‘ jetzt mal Engel channeln..

    Ihr Anna Lena Maier.

  2. Titel eingeben
    Wir möchten für alles immer einen wissenschaftlichen Beweis, die Pharmazie wird dieses schon verhindern. Vielleicht sollte man Patienten die daran glauben und sich subjektiv oder objektiv wohler fühlen, einfach das Gefühl gönnen!

  3. Prof. Dr.
    Homöopathie ist die Medizin für die Epoche der Verschwörungstheorien und alternativen Wahrheiten.
    Sie wäre harmlos, wenn es hier keine Fundamentalisten gäbe, so ähnlich wie die großen christlichen Kirchen, für deren Botschaften sich nur noch Traditionalisten interessieren. Nett aber harmlos. Aber Homöopathie kommt heute meist als Amalgam mit Impfverweigerung daher. Ähnlich wie bei den wohlorganisierten Impfgegner „Impfschadenreporte werden von einer „Macht der Pharmakonzerne“ unterdrückt.“ Heißt es hier: „Wirksamkeit wird verschwiegen/unterdrückt“. In einer Gesellschaft, die ein großes Budget zu einer immer größeren Zahl von sog. Heilpraktikern(die 25 Fragen richtig beantworten können,damit bekommen Sie Ihre Akkreditierung) trägt, die sich aber gleichzeitig darüber beschwert, dass die „Schulmedizin“ Ihr keine schnellen Termine gewährt ( für 32Euro Honorar innerhalb von 3 Monaten insgesamt) ist Homöopathie ein Fetisch geworden.
    Homöopathische Kügelchen taugen

  4. Verbieten
    Homöopathie sollte verboten werden. Die Marburger Erklärung zur Homöopathie entlarvt diese als Pseudowissenschaft und als unwirksam.

    Um Menschen davor zu bewahren Zuckerkugeln bei schweren Krankheiten zu nehmen und auf die Konsultation eines Schulmediziners zu verzichten sollten wir Homöopathie grundsätzlich verbieten.

  5. Titel eingeben
    Jeder Patient kann sich so viele Globulis gönnen, wie er möchte. Man sollte nur Wissenschaftlich klarstellen, ob diese Mittel etwas bewirken oder eben nicht, damit kranke Menschen sich keine Heilung versprechen, wo es keine geben kann. Man muss sich auch nicht an die Forschung und die Wissenschaft stützen, wenn man nicht möchte, ist jedem selbst überlassen. Auf Beweise zu verzichten ist jedenfalls keine Lösung.

  6. Homöopathie
    Text eingeben

  7. Podcast stürzt oft ab
    Hallo FAZ, der Podcast ist jetzt schon 4 mal auf meinem iPhone abgestürzt. Bitte behebt mal das Problem 😉

  8. Natürlich wirkt Homöopathie, und das ist auch wissenschaftlich nachgewiesen
    Man nennt das Placebo-Effekt (nach lat. placebo: ich werde gefallen). Als Placebo bezeichnet man ein Arzneimittel, das keinen Arzneistoff enthält und folglich auch keine pharmakologische Wirkung hat, die durch einen solchen verursacht werden könnte. Als Placebo-Effekt bezeichnet man positive Veränderungen des Gesundheitszustands, die durch eine Behandlung mit einem Placebo hervorgerufen werden. Für diesen Effekt gibt es Massen an wissenschaftlichen Belegen. Er tritt sogar in der folgenden, extremen Form auf: Patienten wird ein Placebo verabreicht und offen gesagt, daß sie ein Placebo erhalten. Auch diese zeigen signifikant bessere Veränderungen des Gesundheitszustands als eine Kontrollgruppe, die gar kein Arzneimittel erhält. Spätestens ab einer Verdünnung („Potenzierung“) von D24 oder C12 kann man davon ausgehen, daß ein homöopathisches Heilmittel ein Placebo ist, da ab diesen Verdünnungen die Avogadro-Zahl überschritten wird.

  9. Es geht letztlich nur darum...
    …ob die Gemeinschaft der Versicherten Homöopathie und andere unwissenschaftliche Methoden bezahlen muss oder nicht. Man sollte den Anhängern von Homöopathie, Geistheilern oder übers Bett gehängten Hasenpfoten ihre individuelle Freiheit zur Therapiewahl lassen. Das soll aber dann bitte schön privat bezahlt werden.

  10. Apotheker: Warum verbieten?
    Als Apotheker, der kein Anhänger der Homöopathie ist, weil ich daran nicht „glauben“ kann, stelle ich trotzdem die grundsätzliche Frage, warum man die Bevölkerung ständig staatlicherseits bevormunden und mit Verboten drangsalieren muß. Soll doch der Patient selbst entscheiden, ob die Homöopathie ihm hilft, oder nicht. WICHTIG ist nur, daß die Patienten auf die entsprechenden Risiken (Verschleppung von Krankheiten, falsche Diagnosen mit dem entsprechend ansteigendem Krankheitsverlauf) deutlich hingewiesen werden. Hubertus Nehring, Apotheker

  11. Herr Nehring
    Herr Nehring, die Homöopathie ist eine Belastung vor allem für Menschen, die sich nicht gut informieren können (da nicht mit Google aufgewachsen) oder Menschen, die für Verschwörungstheorien empfänglich sind.

    Meine Oma ist Homöopathie Befürworterin. Als vor 25 Jahren Ihr Neffe Krebs hatte (war zu einer Zeit, in der ich noch sehr klein war) ist sie zusammen mit ihm bei viele Homöopathen und andere Alternativmediziner gewesen. Sie haben viel Geld gezahlt (was natürlich eine sehr kleine Rolle spielt). Er soll so starke Schmerzen gehabt haben, dass er häufig geschrien hat.

    Das schlimmste war meiner Meinung nach, dass ihnen immer wieder Hoffnung gemacht wurde, aber im Endeffekt ist er leider gestorben. Und er hatte keine starken Schmerzmittel so, dass er viel leiden musste.

    Wir müssen die Bevölkerung vor solchen Scharlatanen schützen.

  12. Danke für den guten, sachlichen Beitrag
    Gut geworden! Schön dargestellt, dass unsachliche persönliche Angriffe (oder das Wühlen in meiner Vergangenheit ;-)) überhaupt nicht weiter helfen, sondern die Frage: Was tut Menschen gut – und wie kann man das – ohne Voodoo! – besser in die Medizin integrieren?

  13. Grober Unfug
    Man kann von Russland halten, was man will, aber dort wurde immerhin Homöopathie kürzlich gesetzlich verboten. Begründung: „Keine wissenschaftlich nachweisbare Wirkung.“
    Wir sollten es genauso machen, oder zumindest die Übernahme von Kosten für Homöopathie nicht mehr von den Krankenkassen erstatten lassen (einige tun dies). Wer sich rein privat mit Zuckerkügelchen beglücken möchte, soll das auch privat zahlen.
    Ärzten sollte die Behandlung von Krankheiten mit solchen Pillen jedoch unbedingt verboten werden.

  14. Homöopathie
    Vorsicht bei pauschal verabreichten homöopathischen Mitteln. Ich habe meine gesundheitlichen Probleme mit homöopathischen Mitteln nicht nur gelindert sondern total beseitigt und ich kann mit gutem Gewissen behaupten, dass die Schulmedizin bei mir versagt hat, ich war jedoch bei einem Homöopathen in Therapie, die sehr individuell war. Was homöopatische Mittel betrifft, die mann einfach so Mal aus der Apotheke holt, davon halte ich gar nichts. Was die Studien zur Homöopathie betrifft, aus wissenschaftlichen Standpunkt sind Sie allesamt nicht seriös, den in allen Studien werden homöopatische Mittel wie Pharma- Produkte behandelt. Man verabreicht an X Patienten mit dem „gleichen“ Leiden die gleiche Dosis y des homeopatischen Mittels z. Gerade so funktioniert Homöopathie nicht, den sie ist individuell, jeder Patient braucht für das vermeintlich gleiche Leiden (gleiche Symptome ungleich gleixhes Leiden) ein anderes Mittel und andere Dosis.

  15. Alles Pfündesicherung und Ideologie
    1) wo gibt es einen Beweis, dass nur Medikamente auf materielle Ebene helfen können?
    2) wenn es tatsächlich so wäre: wieso gibt es einen Placeboeffekt, den man sogar als Referenz für Wirksamkeiten einsetzt?
    3) wenn einer per Placebo seine Gesundheit wieder erlangt, ist das um Klassen besser, als wenn er chronisch sein Problem medikamentös unterdrückt, statt es zu heilen.
    4) wo kommt die ideologische Scheuklappe für Punkt 1) her?
    5) Blutdruck: dieser ist in seiner essentiellen Form nichts anderes, als die Folge einer Befehlskette an die Gefäßmuskeln. Ein Problemlöser würde jetzt versuchen, herauszufinden, wie es zu diesem „Softwarefehler“ kommt. Der lösungsverweigerer wird Medikamente geben als „Pfropfen in die Ohren der Gefäßmuskeln“, so dass diese die Befehle nicht mehr hören. Wirksam! Für > 30 Jahre. Also Dauerkunde…
    6) Asthma: gleiches Prinzip
    Also muss man nach Softwarekorrekturen suchen. Die Homöopathie könnte ein Baustein sein. Also forsc

  16. Manchmal wirkt sie, manchmal nicht
    Ist meine eigene Erfahrung mit Homöopathie. Mit der Zeit lernt man den Umgang. Reines Schwarzweiß-Denken ist irreführend. Ich bleibe dabei und werde es weiter ausbauen. Selbst wenn es sich nur um Placebo-Effekte handelt, ist mir das wurscht. Hauptsache es funktioniert.

  17. Christian Wolff
    Herr Wolff:

    1) Die Frage verstehe ich nicht.

    2) Ein Medikament muss bedeutend wirksamer als ein Placebo sein. Bei der Homöopathie gibt es höchstens einen besseren Placeboeffekt. Wie in dem Podcast erwähnt: Ein Homöopath nimmt sich Zeit für Patienten, meist über 1 Stunde. Das ist das einzige was sich die Schulmedizin abgucken könnte, aber dafür bräuchten wir bedeutend mehr Ärzte.

    3) Das wäre es, wenn es möglich wäre. Aber im Normalfall bieten Medikamente einen dem Placebo deutlich überlegeneren Effekt.

    4) Es ist keine ideologische Scheuklappen, sondern ein wissenschaftlicher Fakt.

    5 und 6) Man sucht nach den Ursachen für Bluthochdruck, man macht Nierenuntersuchungen, man macht Urinproben etc. Man empfiehlt den Patienten sich gesünder zu ernähren, ggf. abzunehmen und mehr Sport zu treiben. Aber viele schaffen das eben nicht, deshalb muss man ihnen Medikamente geben.

  18. Martin Wienand
    Herr Wienand:

    Es ist ausschließlich Placeboeffekt. Vielleicht würde es ausreichen, wenn sie einfach warten, das hilft häufig auch 😉

  19. Homöopathie
    Leidiges Thema, ich weiß, dass es nicht hilft.
    Der Notarzt hat es nicht an Bord.
    Der Astronaut kommt monatelang im Orbit ohne aus.
    Millionen Russen vermissen es nicht, Franzosen, Spanier, Italiener ignorieren es.
    Gleiches gilt für den Angelo-amerikanischen Sprachraum.
    Nur ein kleines Klientel an Deutschen – krank oder gesund, GLAUBT an die Macht des Unmessbaren, 11x geschüttelt, nicht gerührt, 1 Std. nach Sonnenaufgang, nicht bei Vollmond und bitte kein Leitungswasser dazu!! Zuviel gelöstes Unbekanntes.
    Apropos- mein Postulat: Ein Medikament ohne Nebenwirkung, hat keine Wirkung…

  20. Medikamentenabhängigkeit durch Homöopathie
    Man begegnet hin und wieder der Auffassung, man solle doch jeden, der möchte, Homöopathie nutzen lassen, auch wenn es keine über den Placeboeffekt hinausgehende Wirkung hat, eben weil es keine Wirkung, auch keine schädliche, hat. (Siehe z.B. Kommentar von Christian Mahl von 12:34 Uhr)
    Das kann aber indirekte schädliche Folgen haben. Da es keine (Neben)wirkungen hat, neigen Anwender dazu, bei jeder kleinen Übelkeit und jedem Wehwehchen auf Gluboli zurückzugreifen. Gerade Kinder werden so daran gewöhnt, wegen jeder Kleinigkeit irgendetwas einzunehmen, was später gehäuft zu Medikamentenabhängigkeit führt.
    Daneben befördert es natürlich Wissenschaftsfeindlichkeit, Logikferne und Offenheit für alternative Fakten.

  21. Hugo Bob
    Haben Sie Belege für Ihre Behauptung?

  22. Christian 13:48 Uhr
    https://www.tagesspiegel.de/gesellschaft/kolumne-der-kinderdok-warum-homoeopathie-abhaengig-machen-kann/23700004.html

    Ich weiß, kein Beleg für meine Behauptung, sondern nur deren Wiederholung durch jemand anderen, aber von dort habe ich diesen Gedanken, der mir zumindest logisch und nachvollziehbar erscheint.

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  30. Halbwissen ist gefährlich
    Obwohl ich in der Pharmabranche arbeite kann ich für mich behaupten, dass ich sowohl die Vorzüge, als auch die Nachteile der Homöopathie als auch der Schulmedizin kennegelernt habe. Ich kann nur sagen, dass ich eine schwere Stoffwechselkrankheit durch Homöopathie behandelt habe. Unter schwer meine ich, so schwer dass ich nicht in der Lage war, auch nur die geringste körperlich Betätigung durchzuführen und jeden Tag(über 1 Jahr) eine Hand voll Medikamente nehmen musste, da ich null erwartung von der homöopathie hatte, gehe ich von weit mehr als ein Placebo Effekt aus. Ich kann heute ohne jegliche Pillen, auch ohne homöopathische Mittel, Dank der Homöopathie ein glückliches Leben führen. Ich habe auch bei akuten Infektionen oder bei Fieber die Vorzüge der Schulmedizin erfahren.

  31. Nachtrag
    Sein wir doch Mal ehrlich wieviel % der, in den Apotheken angebotenen Pharmaka, denken Sie, dass über eine Placebowirkung hinausgehen, ich würde vielleicht 30-40 % schätzen? Es gibt auch wirklich keine seriösen Studien über Homöopathie und glauben Sie mir ich weiß wovon ich rede, die Auswertung von klinische Studien sind mein Job. Bei Homöopathie wird die gleiche Schablone aufgesetzt wie bei Pharmaka, Die Anzahl N an Patienten mit dem (symptomatischen) Leiden x bekommt die Dosis Z vom Mittel y. So funktioniert homöpathie nicht, denn für das symptomatische Leiden x, gibt es viele organische Ursachen, deswegen muss jeder Patient ein anderes homöopatische Mittel bekommen und auch eine andere Dosis beides auf ihm individuell abgestimmt. Kann mir jemand Mal so eine Studie zeigen?

  32. @ Christian
    Ich habe das Beispiel mit dem Blutdruck gebracht. Der pharmazeutische Effekt der Blutdrucksenker ist da, aber, basiert aber auf der Wirkung, dass Teilfunktionen im Organismus außer Gefecht gesetzt werden ohne deren Sinn zu hinterfragen. Das ist unter den besten Lösungen die schlechteste. Individuell angepasste Lösungeskonzepte wie Akupunktur oder Homöopathie gehorchen nicht dem (industriellen) Massenprinzip. Somit ist der Ansatz des Wirksamkeitsnachweises definitiv falsch und der Kampf gegen solche Ansätze erinnert an die Inquisition. Ich bin kein Homöopathiefan, traue anderen aber zu, für sich selbst zu entscheiden, was für sie gut ist und was nicht. Am Ende gibt es nur einen, der weiß, ob was geholfen hat, und das ist der Patient. Und der braucht keinen Vormund.

  33. Soll jeder glauben was er will
    Habe 3 Mittel gefunden die helfen besser als die vom Arzt verordnet ,bekomme vom Arzt Ambroxol bei Husten was mir überhaupt nicht hilft , mit Behandlungskosten 50 € zum Fenster rausgeworfen

  34. Homoöpathie
    wird nicht von allen Kassen bezahlt ,welche diese nicht anbietet bezahlt das auch nicht mit,
    Bei ernsthaften Krankheiten mit Homöopathie behandeln ist dumm ,
    fahrlässig und verboten

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